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September 21, 2007

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Comments

Todd France

Have you found the different spelling and vocabulary of this British edition a hinderance to your reading and study of this edition of the ESV?

J. Mark Bertrand

Not at all, Todd. In fact, I can't think of a single instance in which I've been "thrown."

Alex S. Leung

Mark, a couple questions:
1) Does this contain the ESV 2007 revision text?
2) What does the layout of the pages look like? It appears to be 2-columns -- but is it Verse-by-verse rather than in paragraphs (every verse begins a new line) ?

I am considering Crossway's ESV Single Column Reference (Black, Premium Calfskin Leather) which seems to be a great value at $122 (37% off msrp) from Amazon.com! This large fonts, verse-by-verse layout, and flat-lying sewn binding is just what I'm looking for in the perfect teaching/preaching Bible.

Allan's Reference at 85pounds (~$175 usd?) is just too expensive!!

Any insights on this would be appreciated ;-)

PDS

It appears this Bible is two-column...and not wide-margin. Correct?

J. Mark Bertrand

Alex, this article should answer your questions about the interior of the Allan's ESV:

http://jmarkbertrand.typepad.com/bibledesign/2007/09/inside-an-allan.html

To make a long story short, it's basically the same layout as a Crossway Classic Reference, minus the book intros and red-letter text. The only verse-per-line setting of the ESV is the Single Column Reference. I don't think it's in the same league as the Allan's ESV, but if you're looking for a larger text and the traditional verse-per-line layout, it's the only game in town.

J. Mark Bertrand

PDS: That's correct. It's the same inside as a Classic Reference, two columns and regular margins.

PDS

Alex -- I have the ESV Bible you are considering. By the way, I think there is a new one on EBAY right now for $99. It is a super nice Bible -- my biggest complaint is the thickness of the paper for note-taking. If you are simply using it to read, it's fantastic...if you want to fill it up with notes etc, you may be disappointed.

PDS

Alex -- I have the ESV Bible you are considering. By the way, I think there is a new one on EBAY right now for $99. It is a super nice Bible -- my biggest complaint is the thickness of the paper for note-taking. If you are simply using it to read, it's fantastic...if you want to fill it up with notes etc, you may be disappointed.

matt

I agree with PDS on the paper thickness for the Thinline ESV...it is too thin. It is a pretty nice binding aside from the paper issue.

matt

The question is which binding of Allan's do you prefer: The Tan ESV or the Black ESV???

matt

I have trying to nail down where Allan's gets their "Highland" goatskin from. I know that mechling binds with a "standard" goatskin and if you pay $50 dollars more you can get Harmatan goatskin with a hand finish, I wonder if the hand finish is the same as Allan's? The next time I send a bible to mechling I would like to find a cover on par with Allans.

Anyone know about leather differences between say mechling and Allans?

Alex S. Leung

Thanks for your help PDS & Mark!

I think I'll stick with Crossway's SCR premium calfskin:)

I currently have a Thinline ESV (tan/premium bonded leather) and I do a lot of underlining with pen/pencil -- and I totally agree, the paper is too thin for notetaking! I'll try to contact Crossway to see if they have plans to fix this -- cause for some, the page-thru-page bleeding of the text is bothersome.

PDS

In speaking with Crossway recently, they have received numerous complaints about the paper-quality. While they didn't give me a definitive answer, it is something they are well aware of and I believe are in the process of addressing. But, in terms of what, when etc...no idea.

Jesus Saenz

PDS, I was on the horn with Crossway just today. I had a problem with The English-Greek Reverse Interlinear New Testament that they resolved so I called Stuart or is it Stewart(?), in customer service to thank him for replacing the damaged copy I had. While conversing with Stuart I asked about the latest printing of the Single Column Reference and wether or not it was going to be reprinted using heavier paper. Crossway is currently out of stock on this particular edition and they expect delivery of new stock in December. I was informed that the printer keeps unbound book blocks of all their editions warehoused until Crossway needs more. The paper issue is something they are aware of will take into consideration in the future but first they need to exhaust the current stock on hand.

I own the Deluxe Heirloom as well as the Single Column Reference, the Heirloom used 27 lbs. paper while the SCR uses 21 lbs. The SCR is 42mm thick at the spine while the Heirloom is 45mm thick, about 1.5" for the block itself. The trim size is almost identical at @ 6.5"x9.25" with the SCR only slightly smaller. The real difference is in the page count. The Heirloom has a 1328 page count while the SCR has 1784 pages. The difference of 456 pages is equal to 11mm or a 1/2". The SCR would be a tad over 2" thick were it to use the same paper as the Heirloom.

If the complaints keep coming in, it seems that Crossway is willing to do something about it.

matt

my original Reference esv in bonded leather had something like 27ib...it was thick!!! but the quality lasted through tons of marking, and the binding fell completely apart but the pages held together perfectly.

Although the two ESVs I bought lately (cordovan Reference in calf/ thinline in calf) have horrible paper.

Brian

I ordered the Allan's ESV in black highland goatskin last week. I spent all of that time wondering if it was really going to be worth the cost. It arrived today, and I have to say that it is more than worth it. It surpasses by far the quality of Crossway's original calfskin edition that I also own, as well as that of my Nelson Signature Bible, and my NASB single column Bible in Calfskin by Foundation Publications in quality. The smell of the leather, the art-gilt edges, the semi-yapp cover, the inside lining, and the overall feel of this Bible all cried out to me that it was money well spent. Any time I have need of a fine Bible, I now know where to turn.

Alex S. Leung

I just received an email response from Crossway about the paper thickness issue:
http://www.sixsteps.org/2007/11/01/paper-too-thin-on-esv-bibles/

Kyle

I just received my black ESV today and it is beautiful. Thanks Mark for the review. I have one question for others who have ordered this one and the tan. The first pages, from Genesis 19 and back to the first or second blank page at the beginning, are stitched together so that they do not open as completely as the rest of the Bible does. It doesn't hide the text, but I was wondering if there is a reason for this, is it normal, or do I need to consider returning the Bible? Thanks for any response.

Chad Smith

Mr. Bertrand,
I want to thank you. I am also one who cannot stand the quality of today's bibles, it's quite sad. However after visiting bibles-direct.com I now have in my possession the best bible I have ever seen or handled, the Allan's reference ESV in black Highland Goatskin. This is an amazing bible, and an end to a long search for a quality bible. I have owned the heirloom reference edition of the ESV, as well as numerous Cambridge bibles, but finally a bible producer that takes great pains in making a quality bible that will stand the test of time. Thank you for the review of your Allan bible, and all the info given about it.

josh

How do the Allen ESVs compare with the Standard Reference Editions in Calfskin (not the thinlines). Are they of superior leather, binding, and overall construction to warrant the purchase?

matt

Josh - They are of superior leather and binding, and I believe warrant the extra cost. While the ESVs in calfskin are very nice, The black calfskin is very supple IMO and the cordovan has a unique look, they do not trump the beauty of the Allan's ESV. The Allans ESV also has a stronger binding, yet also a much more flexible binding.

Allans simply has a more refined look and feel. I guess that accounts for the extra $60 or so.

I would add that some have brought up issues on the blog regarding a stiff book block, etc, which happened in the most recent printing, but Allans is putting out a reprinting later this year (with the updated ESV text) which you may be interested in which is said to fix all the areas in need of attention.

PDS

Yes, I would wait for the new Allan ESV to come out. I haven't noticed any comments about this issue -- but once one gets a Calfskin or Goatskin cover, what is the proper way to maintain and care for the Bible so it lasts a very long time???

matt

1. Natural leather products like goatskin and calfskin are supposed to be handled regularly so the oil from your hands can "condition" the leather...I have heard stories of quality bindings not lasting very long because they are purchased and then shelved for years.

2. I would stay away from leather cleaning products because all the ones I have used either add a smell or slightly darken the leather, plus I dont think they work all that well for bibles. A damp cloth should be sufficient on most bibles.

3.dont be like me and set a bible down on a counter were a chemical was recently spilled thats a sure way to strip the color and finish off.

PDS

Good info. Thanks Matt -- anyone else???

Christian

this seem to be an outstanding bible, what Allan KJV would be most like this one? in comparison.... ?

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  • J. Mark Bertrand is the author of Rethinking Worldview: Learning to Think, Live, and Speak in This World (Crossway, 2007). His novel Beguiled, co-authored with Deeanne Gist, will be released in February 2010, and his crime thriller Back on Murder, the first in a series featuring Houston Homicide detective Roland March, will be published in Summer 2010. After spending most of his life in Louisiana and Texas, he now lives with his wife Laurie in South Dakota. He has a BA in English from Union University and an MFA in Creative Writing from the University of Houston.

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