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January 28, 2008

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MIchael Smith

Thankyou I totalily agree with all 5 points. I now more choices in binding etc. I have been rebinding Bibles since 1981 when I had my preaching Bible rebound for $350.00 from a professor @ The University Of Chicago. I like #5 the best as long as the Bible is sewn and ready for binding.

Brian

Thank you very, very much. I heartily agree with all of your points. We don't need any more devotional Bibles for the middle-aged female golfer in your life!

John

6) Get some people to work for you who have a thorough grasp of consumer expectations when it comes to Bibles. It's like you're carpenters trying to design and sell plumbing parts to plumbers. We know what we want. So get people who know what we want working for you.

Stan

I am in complete agreement. One would think some of these publishers would be ashamed to put out a low quality product.

The following would be nice:
1. Minimum of two ribbons, preferably three.
2. Not sure how to word this, but the inner margin should be sufficient for actually seeing the text when open flat.
3. Extra blank pages at the end for additional notes, detailed gospel outlines, etc...
4. Like you mentioned in your post of the Daily Reading Bible, it would be nice to have as an option the "marginal references for the reading plan...transposed into (the) Bible."
5. Option of having one or more confessions included and cross referenced.

Scott Kay

5 hearty, enthusiastic CHEERS for 5 well-stated points!!! Thank you!

These 5 points could potentially be added to, but I honestly believe that if publishers would just wake up and make the effort to give us even these 5 basic quality enhancements, they would be rewarded for it, both with "chache" and with happy, paying, repeat customers (they could learn a lesson from Apple on this! - Cambridge and Allan's are the only ones so far who are even close to the pleadings of this manifesto!).

As a pastor, I get a lot of chances to influence people on their Bible purchases, and so far, I've found that many of them are also frustrated by the lack of quality options. They want them, but just don't know how to get them.

This book is the most important one I own, and it's the main "tool" I use as a pastor, so I want a good one. In fact, I want a bunch of them!

matt

Thanks Mark. I must that I also consider myself a 5-POINTER.

Gary Zimmerli

On the lower end, give us more choice between black or red letter; give us more opportunities to upgrade to genuine leather instead of stopping at bonded, and give us more information about the different types of binding that are available.

One of my biggest disappointments was discovering that the Bible I had used heavily for several years, Zondervan's NASB personal size large print, was not available in genuine leather, nor in black letter. We need choices like that.

Andrew

3. Extra blank pages at the end for additional notes, detailed gospel outlines, etc...
This depends on whether we're talking about a study Bible or something that is going to be read daily for the next 20 years. If I'm buying a reading Bible, usually all I want is the text, since extra maps, outlines, etc. go in and out of fashion quite quickly. On the other hand, my great-grandfather's old Bible, with nothing but text, doesn't have anything in it that wouldn't be published in a modern King James Bible.

Blank pages at the end, to me, are just a sign of laziness on the part of the publisher. There's never enough of them to take any proper notes, and the binding usually prevents one from using them anyway.

4. Like you mentioned in your post of the Daily Reading Bible, it would be nice to have as an option the "marginal references for the reading plan...transposed into (the) Bible."
The lectern Bible at my church (probably published almost a century ago) has the readings from the Book of Common Prayer lectionary marked in red in the margins. Although they don't quite match the 1962 lectionary on occasion, they're still handy when you've forgotten how far you're supposed to read, and it's also very interesting for getting a sense of how the lectionary actually works. I'd love to see an updated version of this in a personal size.

Ron

Great list! I want the most important book in my life to be exude QUALITY in every aspect! And I am willing to pay for that QUALITY, and so are hosts of others. And just look at all those 'Bible Stacks' on this blog...the folks who prefer QUALITY are never 'one Bible' folks. We're all looking for that perfect Bible, but the fact is we'll never be satisfied with just one! We need different editions for different reasons. I'm really encouraged by this wonderful list and hope the publishers stand up and take note. Thanks Mark!

Ron

Stan

3. Extra blank pages at the end for additional notes, detailed gospel outlines, etc...

I was thinking of an "outreach" or "always have with me" Bible.

In addition to a rather detailed outline of the gospel, I like to have outlines of references to different themes which helps in going through the text with specific cults. For instance, I would have a list of references related to the diety of Christ which I try to focus on when speaking with Jehovah's Witnesses.

Rick

Wow! Great list. I'm of a similar mind. I've already broken my last ESV and have been holding out hope for a single column / paragraph format edition. I'm happy to spend a good deal more for a Bible that will last me a lifetime.

Oh, and can I have just the Bible text?

Greg Terry

I heartily agree with all five points and would second the notion of eliminating that awful red lettering for those of us who detest it. More options - cross references or not, wide margin or not, readable text with paper that has MINIMAL bleed through. Paper is a biggie for me. Many of todays' Bibles have awful paper. I'm willing to pay more for quality. Just give me good quality for the price.

PDS

Lined pages at the back of the Bible. I like to write out some favorite hymns, great quotes from books etc. Blank pages don't keep the text neat and straight...how hard can putting a few lined pages at the end of the Bible be?

Oh, and is anyone else annoyed by the first few pages of Bibles -- marriage info, birthdates etc. Get rid of that garbage.

Mark

Today a copy of the 2007-2008 Cambridge Bibles catalog arrived in the mail. When opened, the first item listed in a NKJV Pitt Minion. All that's pictured is the box it comes in!

In fact, the whole Cambridge catalog is a case study for #4: "Let us look before we buy."

Another example from the catalog is the KJV Lectern Edition. Now if my church is going to pay $575.00 for the goatskin, that decision ought to be made on more visual information than the 1.5 inch by 3.0 inch picture of the open edition included in the catalog.

Overall, there are lots of pictures of 1 to 2 inch bibles and lots of pictures of Cambridge boxes as well as some texts samples in 2.25 inch boxes but nothing that conveys the sense of Cambridge Bibles seen on this blog.

Nick Mackison

Great post Mark. Here's my tuppenceworth:

(6) Offer editions without chapters, verses and section headings (ala Books of the Bible).

My Bible reading has been radically changed by the Books of the Bible project. Looking at a page with chapters and verses just totally jars with me.

don gale

6) take the money you spend on publishing ridiculous editions (like those magazine things) and unnecessary editions (we really have too many options) and spend it on translation projects for the thousands of languages that still don't have any Scripture.

I want my perfect Bible, too, but we could spend a lot more resources on getting these people at least the Gospels.

Seraphim

How about if the people on the forum emailed the publishers directly with their input?

It seems as if the marketing geniuses depicted in the meeting from the Times'article are simply throwing darts, hoping to hit the intended audiences' desire. If they recieved actual input/feedback from the Bible mavens on this blog, perhaps we could actually affect some change?

Mark, would you mind if we also included a link to this blog if we were to email a publisher? I think it would show them that there is a target audience out there who are willing to spend a fair bit more money for a really top of the line Bible.

contemplative

z Bible editor on board. we're listening.
many of us have been to seminary and listened to our cohorts, ministry colleagues and profs rant on red letter editions and rave about classic features -- single column, black letter editions. many of us agree.
keep posting. we're reading you.

Ted

I agree wholeheartedly with the above posters about the horrid red letter bibles. I'm so tired of seeing a bible I like and then finding out that it is only available in a red letter edition. I absolutely refuse to buy red letter bibles.

Ted

I agree wholeheartedly with the above posters about the horrid red letter bibles. I'm so tired of seeing a bible I like and then finding out that it is only available in a red letter edition. I absolutely refuse to buy red letter bibles.

Nathan

My largest problems with bibles have to do with physically reading them. This is usually caused by one of three things, though frequently all three.

One is the thin paper used. I've stopped carrying my NIV thinline bible because it is a strain on my eyes to read the type on the top page due to significant bleed through from the two pages beneath it. The paper in Cambridge's Pitt Minions is a good example of a nicer quality paper in a thin package.

Two is red letter editions. It is very frustrating to try to read red letters, especially combined with thin paper like I just mentioned. I prefer black letter text because it is just plain easier to read. Nothing more frustrating than finding a bible with everything you want only to realize that it is only offered in red letter.

Third is bindings. It is frustrating when a binding prevents a bible from lying flat from its own weight. Bibles that close themselves and lose pages early in it's life are very inconvenient to read out of. Now that I have a few sewn bibles I am pretty certain I'll never buy a bible with a glued binding again.

I could go on about the sad state of bonded and 'genuine' leather covers, but with the existance of the new cheap covers it's not nearly as big an issue for me. Personally I'd rather have seen the new TNIV RB come in a synthetic black or brown instead of the stiff cover that it has now (kudos on it being sewn though). I think I'm starting to ramble so I'm gonna stop; nice post Mark.

Jesus Saenz

I have a few points of contention:

1. I will begin from the inside out, paper first. There are two aspects about paper that I recently came upon while reviewing some of my Bibles, thickness and opacity. I measured the paper on my Bibles and found that most Bible paper is the same thickness yet have slightly different opacity. From my brief and maybe un-scientific research opacity is far more important than thickness. I would hope that Bible publishers would consider using paper that is more opaque than what they have been using of late. Along with better paper, the publishers really need to consider the print quality. This should not even be an issue to be discussing but why are there Bibles, costing more than $20.00 with poor print quality? From one page to the next you have differing type darkness. Is it too much to ask that all the pages in my Bible be printed in black not varying shades of gray and black? Finally, can you keep the text centered?! The type should be centered from page to page, the margins should be the same from page to page at least the top margins should align.

2. Offer more editions with a binding that is Smythe sewn! There is no reason for the expensive Bibles to be the only ones that last more than two years. Glued bindings are atrocious and should not be anywhere near The Holy Bible, I only hope you do not have to account for that to God. A sewn binding with these new faux leathers are a great combination, you get the best of both worlds, a binding that will not fall apart and a cover that is softer and more limp than the leather from plastic animals(genuine leather)... don't even get me started on bonded leather.

3. Premium leather is not limited to black calfskin. I am not asking for a Bible wrapped in mink or lavender stingray. If you are so adamant about using black calfskin try using one that has a sheen to it and move away from the matte black, use something that will develop a patina with use. Better yet, why not offer different color calfskin... isn't brown the new black? Scarlet, tan, chocolate brown, burgundy should be part of any premium leather line up. Finally, goatskin. Aside from Cambridge why are not any other publishers using goatskin? If you are already making calfskin editions, why not go all the way with premium leather and start using goatskin.

4. Ribbons. At least two and they should be of a width and thickness that is in proportion to the size of the Bible itself. What a joke it is to use a ribbon that is 1/8" wide in a bible that is 6" x 9" x 1.75". Do you think we don't notice that you skimp on the ribbons? Remember, at the very least TWO ribbons and make sure they are wide enough and thick enough!

5. Aesthetics. Keep all gaudy printing off the exterior! Add raised bands on the spine, especially on larger editions. Consider doing away with the birth, death, marriages, family tree and presentation pages. Well, maybe not the presentation page. Add lined blank pages to the back. Use a readable font, clean and unencumbered. More wide-margin Bibles with margins that are wide enough for taking notes. More single column, especially single column paragraphs.

6. Hire an art director that is an artist not a careerist.

Seraphim

I agree that one of THE most important things for a truly readable Bible is having very opaque paper!
I'll take a Bible that's a 1/8", or even 1/4" thicker if that is what it takes to stop the bleedthrough from the next page.
My favorite Bible I own is Nelson Signature Series NKJV printed in the USA, and it has fabulously opaque paper. SO nice! My other Nelson Signatures, however, do not share this level of fabulous quality.

Seraphim

In related news:

I just sent in some comments to Nelson publishing in regards to what I'd be looking for in "my" perfect edition (for me, I tend towards the NKJV).

I also found this survey that others may be interested in taking, as that way you can give a little bit of feedback, and also have a chance at winning a Signature Series Bible (I simply must have yet another one in my stack!)

http://www.nelsonbibles.com/survey.php

But that really doesn't allow for the level of input that I was looking for, so I also contacted them using their "feedback" link.

Amanda Taylor

I read with great interest your comments on what you are looking for in a quality Bible, as well as your comments on our recent US catalogue.

I take on board your comments about the benefits of seeing the Bibles out of their packaging before you buy: in the case of the NKJV Pitt Minion Edition, the Bibles had not been produced when we went to press, so we were only able to show a box and text sample.

The Web provides the opportunity to display more pictures - PDS and others can see a photograph of the NKJV Pitt Minion Edition on our UK site: www.cambridge.org/bibles, and our North American distributor the Baker Publishing Group also shows several Bibles out of their packaging.

I will continue to lurk...

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  • J. Mark Bertrand is the author of Rethinking Worldview: Learning to Think, Live, and Speak in This World (Crossway, 2007). His novel Beguiled, co-authored with Deeanne Gist, will be released in February 2010, and his crime thriller Back on Murder, the first in a series featuring Houston Homicide detective Roland March, will be published in Summer 2010. After spending most of his life in Louisiana and Texas, he now lives with his wife Laurie in South Dakota. He has a BA in English from Union University and an MFA in Creative Writing from the University of Houston.

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